There is a developer who is working on a multiplatform app to report ICE as well and they made a response too. ICEBlocks dev just immediately blocked them. So clearly they don't take criticism well and would rather believe Apple marketing. Or maybe want to hide a lack of knowledge about Android development.
It's not a problem if they just want to make an iOS only app. Your skillset is your skillset. But to push misinformation to justify it is just arrogant.
> To send push notifications on Android, it is necessary to use a mechanism that requires storing device IDs. [..]
> [..] Apple’s ecosystem allows for push notifications to be sent without requiring us to store any user-identifiable information. This ensures that ICEBlock remains completely anonymous and secure.
So in one case the developer stores the mapping, and in the other case Apple stores the mapping. And that's a good thing?
It takes 1 subpoena to get access to that data from a large company.
Yeah, I never understood the argument. You're just trusting Apple vs. trusting the dev, either way you are trusting an entity that may or may not act in your best interest, and both entities are subject to subpoena. They could also just use firebase cloud messaging and treat it just like APNS.
There's nothing magical about Apple's services that makes them immune to government requests for data, despite Apple's privacy marketing.
I’m not disagreeing, but the magical difference to me seems that Apple _users themselves_ decided ahead of time to trust Apple, whereas _the developer_ would make the decision to trust a third party?
(My more jaded view is that such arguments are merely rationalizations, and that in 90% of these cases it’s mostly about which stack the people building an app have previous experience with… even though they explicitly claim the decision was made on technical grounds. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
I think your jaded view is likely correct, at least in this case but I can see the other argument. After all, even myself I choose to use iPhone over Android purely because I align more with their practices/policies around data vs. Google, which I guess means I also have decided ahead of time to trust Apple over another entity. But I also have no illusions when it comes to law enforcement access, outside of Apple's Advanced Data Protection, which Android/Google currently offers no alternative to.
> choose to use iPhone over Android purely because I align more with their practices/policies around data vs. Google
Based on what GrapheneOS shared, Apple forces apps to use their service. [1]. If you're a privacy conscious developer in, say, Switzerland, your data is being forcibly kept on US servers. You dont even have that choice.
According to GrapheneOS, Google gives you that choice with Android. That sounds better for privacy, if you ask me.
No argument from me there, Android can be better in some areas, and obviously GrapheneOS is going to be the better option above stock/skinned OEM Android if you value privacy and/or security.
But for those not willing to make the tradeoffs that GrapheneOS requires, Apple is probably the better choice IF you happen to trust Apple, or phrased differently - if you want Apple to be the only one spying on you vs. any number of third parties on Android, depending on which apps you install.
As for me, I have no particular love for Apple, despite being entirely in their ecosystem of devices, but I cba to play sysadmin at home and until Google/Android offers the equivalent level of E2EE as Apple's advanced data protection, I'm sticking with iPhone. I could piece together the equivalent myself, but there's something to be said of just having it offered OOTB.
GrapheneOS's response to ICEBlock's claims about Android security: https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114789276549546469
There is a developer who is working on a multiplatform app to report ICE as well and they made a response too. ICEBlocks dev just immediately blocked them. So clearly they don't take criticism well and would rather believe Apple marketing. Or maybe want to hide a lack of knowledge about Android development.
It's not a problem if they just want to make an iOS only app. Your skillset is your skillset. But to push misinformation to justify it is just arrogant.
> But to push misinformation to justify it is just arrogant.
It seems like the developer is relying on incorrect Apple vs Android stereotypes to market their app, when the truth might be less charitable.
> To send push notifications on Android, it is necessary to use a mechanism that requires storing device IDs. [..]
> [..] Apple’s ecosystem allows for push notifications to be sent without requiring us to store any user-identifiable information. This ensures that ICEBlock remains completely anonymous and secure.
So in one case the developer stores the mapping, and in the other case Apple stores the mapping. And that's a good thing?
It takes 1 subpoena to get access to that data from a large company.
Yeah, I never understood the argument. You're just trusting Apple vs. trusting the dev, either way you are trusting an entity that may or may not act in your best interest, and both entities are subject to subpoena. They could also just use firebase cloud messaging and treat it just like APNS.
There's nothing magical about Apple's services that makes them immune to government requests for data, despite Apple's privacy marketing.
I’m not disagreeing, but the magical difference to me seems that Apple _users themselves_ decided ahead of time to trust Apple, whereas _the developer_ would make the decision to trust a third party? (My more jaded view is that such arguments are merely rationalizations, and that in 90% of these cases it’s mostly about which stack the people building an app have previous experience with… even though they explicitly claim the decision was made on technical grounds. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
I think your jaded view is likely correct, at least in this case but I can see the other argument. After all, even myself I choose to use iPhone over Android purely because I align more with their practices/policies around data vs. Google, which I guess means I also have decided ahead of time to trust Apple over another entity. But I also have no illusions when it comes to law enforcement access, outside of Apple's Advanced Data Protection, which Android/Google currently offers no alternative to.
> choose to use iPhone over Android purely because I align more with their practices/policies around data vs. Google
Based on what GrapheneOS shared, Apple forces apps to use their service. [1]. If you're a privacy conscious developer in, say, Switzerland, your data is being forcibly kept on US servers. You dont even have that choice.
According to GrapheneOS, Google gives you that choice with Android. That sounds better for privacy, if you ask me.
[1]: https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114789435383593180
No argument from me there, Android can be better in some areas, and obviously GrapheneOS is going to be the better option above stock/skinned OEM Android if you value privacy and/or security.
But for those not willing to make the tradeoffs that GrapheneOS requires, Apple is probably the better choice IF you happen to trust Apple, or phrased differently - if you want Apple to be the only one spying on you vs. any number of third parties on Android, depending on which apps you install.
As for me, I have no particular love for Apple, despite being entirely in their ecosystem of devices, but I cba to play sysadmin at home and until Google/Android offers the equivalent level of E2EE as Apple's advanced data protection, I'm sticking with iPhone. I could piece together the equivalent myself, but there's something to be said of just having it offered OOTB.
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the whataboutism is strong in this one
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